Curse

Killed u man · May 06, 2010, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Currently, I'm still in the middle of a battle between me and the support (Backed by Gaile herself) regarding the permanent banning of my acount for (ab)-using an exploit in Guild Wars.

Let me start by saying I did not abuse an exploit (And the support confirmed that they have NO indication of me abusing an exploit), but rather unknowingly bought an exploited item. (Note I got banned for only 1 item! I didn't buy hordes and hordes of duped ectos or armbraces, I bought one glitched item for a bit above street price, (No more than 20K) which now turned out to be the result of an exploit)

The reason I'm starting this thread is because I want to know if everyone feels the same way support and Gaile does. Which is guilty untill proven otherwise (Which obviously can't be proven), resulting in everyone who'se name gets mentioned in an exploit-case gets auto-banned.

I have send over 20 emails to support, and over 10 emails to Gaile herself, and you can find my most recent request regarding this issue on the following
page:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...view_Requested

Please read through it to understand the situation, and know where I'm comming from.

To quote from the previous link:

Quote:

Imagine if a person discovered an ecto dupe, and decides to sell thousands of duped ectos (At regular price) to thousands of different people who are unaware of their nature. Would it be fair to ban the thousands of innocent people who bought these seemingly legit ectos in an effort to wipe up the impact of the exploit?

Because that is morallity of the issue I'm having with support. If you read through the link, you will find that Anet (And Gaile Gray herself) tolerated those items untill policy change was made making them illegal. Do I really deserve to be banned for the (ab-)use of an exploit when the EULA, presearing.com (an official forum, just like guru) and Gaile herself either mention nothing at all about these items, or even promote/tolerate the trade of these items? (Before the policy change)

I'm really tired of this issue (I've been fighting with support for over a year now) and I really want to know what other people think of this issue.

Infanta · May 06, 2010, 03:42 PM // 15:42

My opinion is you loaded up on duped armbraces and now are complaining you can't rake in the cash for it.

Killed u man · May 06, 2010, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infanta

My opinion is you loaded up on duped armbraces and now are complaining you can't rake in the cash for it.

Even if I traded loads of duped armbraces from one acount to another whilst paying market price for them, how would I be able to rake in cash?

The least you can do is read the original post, and preferably the link I provided aswell so you have a full grasp of what is going on, instead of just grabbing for the "Reply" button trying to up your post count.

Infanta · May 06, 2010, 03:56 PM // 15:56

No, I'm not going to read pages of you crying that got caught duping and/or loading up on duped items. You broke the rules, you got banned, move on with your life.

lishi · May 06, 2010, 03:57 PM // 15:57

I recently bought plenty of unid from asian looking names or raptor items from E/Me. So far the only reason i know for someone to run the E/Me Build to farm raptor is because the e/me bot come first.

So yea, that is a good question to ask.

Killed u man · May 06, 2010, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

I recently bought plenty of unid from asian looking name or raptor items from E/Me. So far the only reason i know for someone to run the E/Me Build to farm raptor is because the e/me bot come first.

So yea, that is a good question to ask.

Atleast you understand the issue, unlike other trolls posting here

So my point is:

If an item is concidered perfectly legal (Duped items seem perfectly legal to anyone who is not aware of those items) and if Anet specifically mentioned those items as being tolerated before (In Pre-Searing), is it justifiable to ban people who are unaware of their nature for it?

This obviously also applies to Chinese farmbots aswell. I understand Anet tries to keep the influx of these illegal items in check, but does it have to come at the cost of innocent people getting banned? (Which I feel I have, because I was unaware I bought an exploited items, even after checking the EULA, official forums and Gaile's statements I came to the conclusion it was OK to be those items)

Zodiac Meteor · May 06, 2010, 04:05 PM // 16:05

I can somewhat relate, you got banned from Guild Wars for breaking the rules and now you regret it.

I agree, give him the account back, destroy the exploited items and call it done deal.

Sure you broke the rules, but going through all this trouble for your account you probably won't break them again.

Give the account back, lesson learned. Simple.

Karate Jesus · May 06, 2010, 04:06 PM // 16:06

So, wait, I'm confused.

You bought a post-sear item in pre-sear that someone exploited the bug to get.

Then, when finding out the new policy, you took that character to post. And then you were banned?

Is that right?

Rikimaru · May 06, 2010, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Wow, and it was a retroactive ban after a policy change? Harsh

Anyway, asking for sympathy here is pointless, the average Guru poster has no soul. They really wouldn't be able to help you even if they did.

Killed u man · May 06, 2010, 04:12 PM // 16:12

@ Zodiac:

Thx for your support

but,

I never knowingly broke the Guild Wars rules. Never did I do an action thinking: "This will get me banned if discovered", all I did was buy an item which afterwards turned out to be the result of an exploit. Obviously, I do regret it, but given the situation, there was no way for me to know that was an exploited item.

Also, the item in question is already destroyed, and the character is already removed from the "crime scene". Gaile made a statement specifically regarding this issue, asking people to delete the glitch items and move the characters away from Pre-Searing.

This is exactly what I did, and still I got banned. My beef is with the fact that I did nothing illegal in the first place (Those items were not concidered illegal before the policy change), but when I did my utter best to abide by the new rules, I still got banned, despite doing everything Gaile herself said would solve the issue.

On top of that, hundreds of other people did exactly the same thing with exactly the same mindset. Yet I am one of the few people that got banned, and the others walk free. I don't want to report those other people, because I believe we are all in the right.

I'm not asking for sympathy really (There is no doubt about this issue for me. I dind't break the EULA, I got banned for the wrong reasons, and the support is too stubborn to come back on their call), I was just wondering what everyone else thought of this issue.

Voodoo Rage · May 06, 2010, 04:13 PM // 16:13

I'm a little unclear what your specific offense was. Did you buy a duped item or did you utilize a guild hall exploit to get items into Pre-searing? Either way I don't think a ban was justified.

I think there a lot of exploits in this game that we all use on a regular basis. How about all the people who are completing EotN missions and vanquishes by flagging heroes into unspawned areas? Is that not an exploit? How about having someone ferry your level 2 character to the Consulate docks so you can cheat and get maximum armor to breeze through the first part of Nightfall? I'm not saying I have any problem with any of those things but they are indeed methods of exploiting the game. Obviously, I can see someone actively duplicating an item deserving a ban but I think a lot of these bans are more from Anet being too lazy to address the root of the problem or taking the time to attempt to revert a "tainted" account.

Seriously, what "taints" the game more, people getting some runes in pre-searing or Shadowform?

Karate Jesus · May 06, 2010, 04:25 PM // 16:25

I feel like we're not hearing the whole story here.

Killed is claiming that he only bought an exploited item, which we know others who haven't been banned for that. Gaile seems to be under the impression that he brought the exploited item into pre-sear himself. And considering that they can actually look at those things (chat logs, etc.) I have a feeling we may be getting lied to.

FoxBat · May 06, 2010, 04:26 PM // 16:26

In general I think banning people for exploits is retarded for exactly this reason. The line is just to gray in a world where people do everything they can to maximize rewards and minimize grind time to get them. Ban people for repeated greifing, ban people for actively hacking your client or running external programs like bots. Anything else is the designers damn responsibility to fix. Or are we going to start banning everyone that runs the back way in Gyala?

Zodiac Meteor · May 06, 2010, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Basically, some one used the old travel exploit to sell an item to him in Pre-searing. Identifying an exploit as a exploit and nothing else he got banned.
To top that off, the policy changed AFTER he broken the rules and got banned.

It would be like making mint ice cream illegal, and imprison everyone he has ever eaten mint ice cream. Except the rule wasn't established until a week later.

What he isn't saying:

Quote:

OMFG I GOT BANNED LOLWUT?!1 I SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN BANNED LOLWTFBBQ!!11!1

What he is saying:

Quote:

I bought a post-searing item from a fansite to use in pre-searing, it was wrong and more than happy to fix it. Yet the policy got me banned by breaking rules that didn't exist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Good point, could be lying

Killed is claiming that he only bought an exploited item, which we know others who haven't been banned for that. Gaile seems to be under the impression that he brought the exploited item into pre-sear himself. And considering that they can actually look at those things (chat logs, etc.) I have a feeling we may be getting lied to.

Even if he was lying, personally I would give the account back. Sure what he did was wrong, but it's nothing compared to hacking 20 stacks of armbraces and saying "I'm sorry I broke the rules" bull crap. He brought a character/bought an item in pre-searing, that's about it, nothing game breaking.

The check list:
Regret even doing it?
Check.
Trying to fix it, with a wall of text attack?
Check.
Never exploit again, after knowing the feeling of losing everything.
Check.

jazilla · May 06, 2010, 04:31 PM // 16:31

@OP: Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that someone who has posted on here enough to get the forum tag: "Forge Runner" doesn't know what's in Pre and what's in Post. I also find it shady that you won't say specifically what happened. It is all very vague language you are using.

Killed u man · May 06, 2010, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

I feel like we're not hearing the whole story here.

Killed is claiming that he only bought an exploited item, which we know others who haven't been banned for that. Gaile seems to be under the impression that he brought the exploited item into pre-sear himself. And considering that they can actually look at those things (chat logs, etc.) I have a feeling we may be getting lied to.

Obviously, I must have traded with an exploiter when I bought the item. Thats common sense in person, BUT I never used a third party program to create an exploit. (up to this day, I still don't exactly know how the glitch work, I think it had something to do packet sniffing. -The same way interrupt bots work-)

However, I DID ask the support what exact evidence they had that I hacked the game (Which I didn't) and in one of the 20 emails orso they send back, they admitted that whilst I didn't directly hack the game, I still abused the exploit by buying an exploited item.

So they have already admitted they know I dind't hack the game, however they feel that simply buying exploited items, despite the item seeming perfectly legal, is worth a ban.

I also recently send an email to the german support (because the american support fully ignores my emails), and they said they could NOT look back into the records, because they had been tampered with. I can quote directly from that mail (which I recieved yesterday) that my chat logs/records have been removed/modified by someone else and they could not check wether or not I hacked the game.

@ Jayzilla:

To avoid repition, I instead posted the link. Read the wiki link to understand the full situation. That contains all the info you need to know. I bought a Pre-Searing item which under the policy at that time was 'tolerated', yet 7-14 days later suddenly was concidered illegal. Even then, Gaile herself said that simply removing the item and character away from Pre-Searing would be enough to solve the issue, which is exactly what I did, yet I still got banned.

I asked them to delete the character instead of permanent banning me, but for some reason that wasn't possible...

NerfHerder · May 06, 2010, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Did you have a screenshot of the transaction?

And did you know they can pull up chat logs?

This post smells kinda fishy, your not giving us many details. I gotta side with gail until I know more. Id think you would get a warning or suspension first. Whatever it is you did they must have some serious proof for a perma ban. My only advice is suck it up and drive on. Buy another account its like $24 bucks at Amazon, for all expansions. Just be more careful next time. Hopefully they caught the person that sold it to you.

EDIT- Did the person selling say something like WTS exploited "wtvr" or did he mention it was hacked?

Mangione · May 06, 2010, 04:41 PM // 16:41

So...
let me understand this:
1) you bought a post-searing item in pre.
2) You destroyed the item when you came to knew that it was forbidden to have it in pre.
3) You moved your character to post.
4) You were banned.

This while Gayle wrote here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

If you have a character whose skills were impacted by the use of Post-Searing tomes, you need to move that character to Post-Searing immediately. If you have an item, weapon, rune, tome, or anything else from Post-Searing â€“ no matter when you acquired it or when it appeared in Pre-Searing â€“ that item or weapon needs to be deleted or moved to Post-Searing right away.

There's nowhere mention of bans or whatever.

In my opinion, this ban is completely absurd.
Assuming you didn't use an exploit to bring the item in pre, and assuming that you didn't know you weren't supposed to have the item, once the item was removed, and the character relocated, there was no reason to punish you (after all, not only you lost the item, and got out of pre, you probably lost a good amount of gold to the seller).

If that is the case, I feel Anet has made a big mistake on you.

On the other hand, Anet is weird when it comes to rules (and enforcing them).
Match manipulation (Red Resigns and the conga guild to mention a couple) seem to me far heavier offences, as the abusers reaped benefits, in terms of titles, zkeys ($$$) and were left untouched anyway.
I remember the "build your henchman" contest. One rule was that builds HAD TO BE not published anywhere, unique. Then PvX won.
The "Halloween Contest". The tattoo won. Unless the guy with the tattoo was able to paint it on his back by himself, that was made by SOMEONE ELSE. An yet it won anyway.
The game is full of botters, they farm, they pvp... and they stay there untouched.

All this is perfectly fine by Anet.

But hey, the dude had a glitched item. BAN HIM.

EDIT:
@Killed
You explained further in detail while I was writing my post.
Some of the points have been clarified.

snaek · May 06, 2010, 04:45 PM // 16:45

you got played. the person selling the glitch item was an anet employee and you fell for the trap. its all part of anet's business plan to get people to buy more copies of their game.

seriously though, i won't give my opinion until i know what exactly the 'glitched' item is. is there a reason your not being upfront and direct about it?

also, i don't ever recall of a ban being lifted. anet is most likely wrong, but since the ban was already in place, they are unable to remove the ban and therefore will refuse to admit that they were wrong.

Killed u man · May 06, 2010, 04:46 PM // 16:46

I didn't take a screenshot of the transaction, because again at that time nothing seemed fishy. I wasn't buying 100 stacks of armbraces for 10K. I was buying a tome in Pre-Searing, after reading on the offical forum it was ok to trade these. (Again, this was before the policy change. This was still when glitched items in Pre-Searing got tolerated)

I really don't know what other details ppl want?

It's about the morality of the issue:

Does a person who is no in way involved in an exploit deserve to be banned after buying an exploited item. (For a normal price)